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CD696706 Posts: 19,646
12/4/09 11:11 A

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emoticon

In order to make this topic stick...I had to move it to the Challenges and Goal sections.


please follow the link to the new thread.

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geboard_thread.asp?board=1090x123x30R>135199


gail

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12/4/09 11:07 A

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This month will be a little nuts, so I will aim for 60

12/3 - 2.02


totals: 2.02/57.98 to go

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12/4/09 9:33 A

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I tend to run 5x a week, and they are somewhat dictated by the running groups I belong to. For variety, I try to alternate types of runs. Tuesday is track (intervals), Wed is easy, Thursday is tempo, Saturday easy, Sunday long (or race). This week I took Thurs off because I'm getting sick, but I'll be running hard Sat and Sun. I think as long as you listen to your body and rest when you need it, you can run back-to-back days.

I only have half the month of Dec because surgery on the 18th, so my goal is 60 miles this month. I didn't hit my goal last month, so we'll see!

Dec 1: 5.3 miles
Dec 2: 4.25 miles

done: 9.55 miles, left: 50.45

COOPSM's Photo COOPSM Posts: 24,881
12/4/09 9:13 A

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I just noticed Gail---I put this is the wrong spot...oh no....this was to go under challenges.....

~Beth~

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12/4/09 7:16 A

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Goal: 35

12/2: 2


Total: 2
Remaining: 33

Edited by: KBHLMH at: 12/4/2009 (07:16)
Celebrate Movement!!!

















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OZONE3's Photo OZONE3 Posts: 448
12/4/09 7:06 A

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Goal: 60

Dec 1: --
Dec 2: 6.32
Dec 3: --
Dec 4: 4.70


Total: 11.02 miles
Remaining: 48.98 miles


Rita
(I am 5'6", 50 yrs old)
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"Even if you fall flat on your face, at least you are moving forward" --Sue Luke


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LAKELIFE's Photo LAKELIFE Posts: 788
12/3/09 4:18 P

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Wonger - GREAT explanation of your system! Thanks! Even though I've been running over a year now, I still find 3x/week good for me - maybe due to my still larger size, and my age (50) - plus, I like cross training so I don't get bored. But I understand how you're doing what you're doing now, and it makes a lot of sense - especially when you're trying to get other training in there. And I may have to start thinking like you when I get more serious about the tri training in the spring. We shall see...

OK, so tally of miles...

12/3: 4.8

Goal: 60 miles
To Go: 55.2

1/31/08:  Joined Spark People! 
9/27/09: First 5K!
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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
12/3/09 3:45 P

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John:
You still haven't answered the question mate.

Here's why I run 6x week, I'd be interested to see where you think the flaws are and why I'm flirting with overtraining...

General disclaimer - this is Road Runners which is why I'm posting this here. I'm a firm believer that any rookies out there should start at 3x.

The main purpose of training is to encourage positive adaptations. I don't believe that we are all truly an expt of 1 in this case, as a decent program is based on the SAME principles. One of these truths is increase mileage, decrease intensity and vice versa. It's obvious that high miles AND intensity = injury happens. The corollary isn't quite as obvious, but lower miles AND intensity = jack squat happens.

So to get adaptations you have to mess with either miles or intensity. So either run more but at an easy pace (your "classical" model), or run less and make it predominantly speedwork (your FIRST model). Where we all differ is how we respond to volume/intensity - I've done both and I personally respond much better to a lot of volume and a touch of speedwork.

The problem with running 3-4x is that to get decent volume the runs get long. And even at easy pace, recovery was starting to get in the way of the bike workouts, which are necessarily hard in the winter as riding on a stationary trainer for longer than 1.5hrs is mind-shredding. Note that I'm in base for both sports but I believe that building base on the bike is a totally different animal from building base on the run, especially up here in the frozen North.

The other way to increase volume is to run MORE. I believe most runners could benefit by running more too. In fact, one of the best things I did last year was go from 3-4x. But we're talking about 6x here, so how'd I do it?

I took my average week (2:30) and split it into 6 runs (3 short, 2 mod, 1 long). This worked out to be something like 3x15', 2x30', 1x45', for a total of 2:30. Notice I didn't increase time at all, I just broke it down to 6x.

I did this for a month to get used to it, and then started to increase mileage. I added 1' to the shorts, 2' to the mods, and 3' to the long run per week. After 5 weeks build I'm sitting at 3x20, 2x40 and 1x60 for a total of 3:20. To do 3:20 on 3x a week is 60, 60, 80 - that's getting tricky.

After a couple of weeks I'm going to start building again, to 3x25, 2x50 and 1x75, for 4:10. How do you propose to get 4:10 running 3x a week (3x 83', that's how).

I love this. I can stick the short runs in in the morning and ride in the evenings. Mod runs happen at lunch/evening. Long run is the weekend. No true long runs, so no long TM sessions or freezing outside for 90'+. When it comes time to add speedwork, one of my mod runs becomes threshold. Closer to the race, the other may become some mile repeats. I'll start to throw in strides onto a short run come January.

Your comments welcome!

Edited by: WONGERCHI at: 12/3/2009 (15:54)
In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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12/3/09 10:30 A

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My goal is to run 60 miles.



Completed Run:

Las Vegas1/2 marathon - Dec 6, 2009 2:27:26


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12/3/09 9:39 A

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I've never set a mileage goal for running before ... so it's hard to say what it should be. I'm guessing 40 miles would be about right, since I only run 3x/week and the mileage is pretty low.

Since I missed my run yesterday because of being on airplanes all day, I'm going out for my first run of December today!

--Marsha

Virtual Walk challenge, from Durham, NC to Modesto, CA: 2995 miles
2702.49 miles walked so far
Passing through Toiyabe National Forest in NV
292.51 miles left to go!

Just keep swimming ...


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OZONE3's Photo OZONE3 Posts: 448
12/3/09 9:22 A

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Goal: 60 miles

A little down from last month. We're going home the week of Christmas and my folks live out in the country where there are some not so nice dogs running loose...won't be able to run while I'm there. emoticon

Rita
(I am 5'6", 50 yrs old)
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"Even if you fall flat on your face, at least you are moving forward" --Sue Luke


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ETTEZEUS's Photo ETTEZEUS Posts: 23,425
12/3/09 9:03 A

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Isn't it Gail (Rhynic) that has run every day for the last year? I'm still new also. I was on a mileage buildup training plan that had me running 4x a week but that started to hurt my runs and all other areas of exercise (fatigue, grumpy, no energy) so I altered it and backed down to 3x. I felt much better. I will eventually give 4x a week a try again but since I'm still under a year running, 3x works for me.

Listen to your body, it will tell you if you are overtraining. Mine certainly did!!

Goal for this month is 50.

Suezette
Vero Beach, Florida



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COOPSM's Photo COOPSM Posts: 24,881
12/3/09 8:39 A

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I agree 100%..we are all individuals and what works for 1 may not work for another....but I am one to seek out and found out the answer for me..never know until you try....

~Beth~

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Runners just do it - they run for the finish line even if someone else has reached it first. ~Author Unknown


MBSHAZZER's Photo MBSHAZZER Posts: 18,605
12/3/09 8:34 A

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Goal: It's a secret!

12/1 - 6
12/3 - 6

Total: 12

As to days the appropriate amount of days per week to run, I think that's highly individual. Some people absolutely cannot run 2 days in a row and some people have no problem with it. For me it's dependent on the length and intensity of my runs. I can run 6x per week, no problem, if they are short, easy runs. Now that I am training for a marathon, I seem to need to keep it to 4 days per week. Regardless of how many days per week I run, I always seem to end up at around 40 - 45 miles per week.

Like our pal Nancy always says, we are all an experiment of 1!


"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts" - Winston Churchill

2012 Running Mileage: 2,065


MOM2ALEX2004's Photo MOM2ALEX2004 Posts: 3,571
12/3/09 7:43 A

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Well, I haven't made my goal for the past 2 months, but with NOLA coming up (faster & faster!) I need to get on the ball! I'm going with 65- my training plan says 75, but with my history, I need a success rather than a failure, so I'd rather go over!
65 for December!

12/3: 2.2

2.2 MR/ 62.8 MTG
Jill

4/13/13- Monument Ave 10k

10k PR: 1:13:49
HM PR: 2:52:26


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FREEDOMSTAR's Photo FREEDOMSTAR Posts: 13,965
12/2/09 7:04 P

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12/1 0
12/2 0
12/3
12/4
12/5
12/6
12/7
12/8
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12/10
12/11
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C0-Team leader of Change is Good and Half Marathon Team, Support panel of The Best Life Diet


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PAGONA's Photo PAGONA SparkPoints: (0)
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12/2/09 7:02 P

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Goal 60 miles....


12/1 0 Weight Trained
12/2 5.5
12/3
12/4
12/5
12/6 6.4 (relay marathon)
12/7
12/8
12/9
12/10
12/11
12/12
12/13
12/14
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12/16
12/17
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12/19
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12/22
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12/27
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12/29
12/30
12/31



Edited by: PAGONA at: 12/2/2009 (19:19)
Even when your day does not go the way you wanted it to, remember there is always tomorrow to start your day all over again.


Pagona

Weekly Weigh In:
1/12/11 - 155.6
1/19/11 - 159.0
1/26/11 -
2/1/11 -
2/9/11 -
2/16-11 -
2/23/11 -
3/2/11 -
3/9/11 -
3/16/11 -
3/23/11 -
3/30/11 -
4/6/11 -
4/13/11 -
4/20/11-
4/27/11 -


 current weight: 155.6 
155.6
151.2
146.8
142.4
138
FREEDOMSTAR's Photo FREEDOMSTAR Posts: 13,965
12/2/09 6:50 P

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Interesting article in running times on Master runners over 40
click on link to read whole article
john


Slower recovery and healing rates

None of these approaches works if you push too hard, too often. "All the evidence I read doesn't suggest that you can actually slow the aging process," Noakes once told me. "In contrast, I think you can accelerate the aging process if you overdo the exercise."

For younger athletes, he thinks overdoing it is running more than about two hours a day. But many masters runners find that it takes longer than it once did to recover from workouts and races. Lots of factors may be involved, but the simplest to understand is at the cellular level, where tissue repair and replacement simply don't occur as rapidly as they once did.

What this means is that as you age, you may have to experiment with changing your workout pattern. When Carlos Lopes of Portugal won the Olympic marathon at age 37, then went on to win the Rotterdam Marathon at age 38 with a new world record of 2:07:12, Alberto Salazar asked him what he did differently at that age. "Carlos was definitely at an age where most people start having to make adjustments," Salazar says. "He told me that his main adjustment had been to reduce the frequency of his hard workouts. These workouts, he said, still needed to be as intense as ever; he simply allowed more recovery time between them."

McMillan agrees. Masters runners need to do every type of workout that younger runners do, but they may need to alter their schedules. And they may need to allow more time to adapt. "We are so engrained with Tuesday-Thursday [speed], Sunday long run," he says. "You almost have to throw that out the window and start looking at what's going to help. That's going to be different for every runner."

Masters runners also need to be careful to allow enough recovery time after races. "It used to be a race on Saturday, long run on Sunday; no problem," McMillan says. "When you get older, that may not be the best routine." www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?Ar
ti
cleID=17947&PageNum=1


Edited by: FREEDOMSTAR at: 12/2/2009 (18:55)
C0-Team leader of Change is Good and Half Marathon Team, Support panel of The Best Life Diet


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12/2/09 6:26 P

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I'm in for 100 again!!

12/2 3.50 Miles


Total December Miles 3.50
Miles To Goal 96.50

emoticon


The race belongs not only to the swift and strong but also to those who keep on running


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COOPSM's Photo COOPSM Posts: 24,881
12/2/09 6:12 P

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John--I know that..but try to go for 4---I was running 4 days/week when I was training with Fleet Feet and then I was doing 5 days/week following the runner Hal Hidgeon plan..we are all an experiment of one and what is right for one may not be right for another, but my opinion is that trainers and runners would not have all these plans out to injure people...its all your comfort zone and seeing what you are capable of...

~Beth~

~Look me up on facebook
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Runners just do it - they run for the finish line even if someone else has reached it first. ~Author Unknown


FREEDOMSTAR's Photo FREEDOMSTAR Posts: 13,965
12/2/09 6:04 P

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Beth- running 6 days per week goes against everything Ive been taught about running.

C0-Team leader of Change is Good and Half Marathon Team, Support panel of The Best Life Diet


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12/2/09 6:02 P

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Goal 80 miles....


12/1 0
12/2 6
12/3
12/4
12/5
12/6
12/7
12/8
12/9
12/10
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6 down out of goal of 80 miles

~Beth~

~Look me up on facebook
www.facebook.com/bethglair

~Follow me at www.facebook.com/bethglairfit?ref=hl

Runners just do it - they run for the finish line even if someone else has reached it first. ~Author Unknown


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12/2/09 5:55 P

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Dec 1 - 5.1mi
Dec 2 - 3mi

Dec total: 8.1

Katrina
Saskatchewan Time Zone

You can not change yesterday - it's done.
You can only dream of tomorrow.
The only day you can change is today.
What are you going to do today to reach your goals of tomorrow?

It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it GREAT

Go little Turtle Go!


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Yeah, I am kind of curious too.

When I push myself to my limits with running, I rest the next day. However, if I am not pushing to my limits every day, and feel okay, I run every day. I am kind of interested to hear what others have to say on this topic.

Katrina
Saskatchewan Time Zone

You can not change yesterday - it's done.
You can only dream of tomorrow.
The only day you can change is today.
What are you going to do today to reach your goals of tomorrow?

It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it GREAT

Go little Turtle Go!


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COOPSM's Photo COOPSM Posts: 24,881
12/2/09 5:43 P

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Adrian and John--feel free...we all can learn...lots of knowledge to be picked up emoticon

~Beth~

~Look me up on facebook
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Runners just do it - they run for the finish line even if someone else has reached it first. ~Author Unknown


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12/2/09 5:37 P

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I'm new to the treadmill (bought a used one cheap) so I don't know how it will go, but I'm determined to get back to doing LSD runs once a week. So, with that in mind....I am aiming for 60! We shall see...

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8/1/09: First 10K!
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12/2/09 5:31 P

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December goal: 40 miles

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12/2/09 3:31 P

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I'm shooting for 60 miles this month. did 5.5 today :)
Pagona

Even when your day does not go the way you wanted it to, remember there is always tomorrow to start your day all over again.


Pagona

Weekly Weigh In:
1/12/11 - 155.6
1/19/11 - 159.0
1/26/11 -
2/1/11 -
2/9/11 -
2/16-11 -
2/23/11 -
3/2/11 -
3/9/11 -
3/16/11 -
3/23/11 -
3/30/11 -
4/6/11 -
4/13/11 -
4/20/11-
4/27/11 -


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12/2/09 3:19 P

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John:
Not impossible mate, I've been doing it for 2 months!

What you're saying is that running 1 mile a day for 6 days = overtraining but running 2 miles 3x a week isn't?

I'd be more than happy to get into the whys, hows and wherefores of running 6x/week with you but it's kinda difficult when there's no rationale for the opposing position...



EDITED to add:
I will say that 3x a week should be the limit for beginner runners, on that I think we agree. But I've been running for 3.5 years now...

I guess for the sake of the thread, we can continue via PM if you like - sorry Beth!

Edited by: WONGERCHI at: 12/2/2009 (15:25)
In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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12/2/09 3:00 P

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I used to run EVERY day but now I find that it hinders my overall running. I do Bikram yoga on the days that I don't run. It really helps. In my high mileage days I'd run 50 miles or so a week.

My December goal is still 60.

Respect life.

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FREEDOMSTAR's Photo FREEDOMSTAR Posts: 13,965
12/2/09 2:50 P

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Im still a newbie (1 year out) but what I've been told is try NOT to run everyday back to back, when your running 6 days per week thats impossible

J

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12/2/09 2:47 P

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How?

Seriously. I have an answer for you but I want to know your reasoning this seemingly arbitrary cut-off of 5x/week...

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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12/2/09 2:38 P

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when you run more than 5 days per week?

C0-Team leader of Change is Good and Half Marathon Team, Support panel of The Best Life Diet


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12/2/09 2:36 P

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John:
How is this overtraining?

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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FREEDOMSTAR's Photo FREEDOMSTAR Posts: 13,965
12/2/09 2:19 P

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Then it could be what Nancy calls Over training? emoticon

Edited by: FREEDOMSTAR at: 12/2/2009 (14:25)
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12/2/09 2:18 P

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John:
Why not? Plenty of runners doing it.... emoticon

I've been a 5-6x week person for about 2 months now. There is a "trick" to the switch. And the first month was hard. But it does work!

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


 current weight: 190.0 
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187.5
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BLUEROSE73's Photo BLUEROSE73 SparkPoints: (149,624)
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Posts: 35,244
12/2/09 1:49 P

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Don't really know how far I will go, especially now with the snow and ice.

Dec 1 - 5.1mi

Dec total: 5.1

Katrina
Saskatchewan Time Zone

You can not change yesterday - it's done.
You can only dream of tomorrow.
The only day you can change is today.
What are you going to do today to reach your goals of tomorrow?

It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it GREAT

Go little Turtle Go!


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FREEDOMSTAR's Photo FREEDOMSTAR Posts: 13,965
12/2/09 1:45 P

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Chi- what do you mean you run 6X per week? I dont think thats allowed emoticon

C0-Team leader of Change is Good and Half Marathon Team, Support panel of The Best Life Diet


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WONGERCHI's Photo WONGERCHI Posts: 3,889
12/2/09 1:27 P

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December goals, eh?

Mine is simply consistency. Run easy 6x week, comprising 3x 20', 2x 40', 1x 60'.

Distance? God knows. I think it's ~130k/month.

In God we trust, all others bring data.
- W. Edwards Demings

If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken Him completely by surprise.
-P.Z. Pearce

Specificity, specificity, specificity.
-Andy Coggan

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- Frank Kotsonis


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FREEDOMSTAR's Photo FREEDOMSTAR Posts: 13,965
12/2/09 12:28 P

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80 Dec increase to 100 in Jan Km that is not miles

John

C0-Team leader of Change is Good and Half Marathon Team, Support panel of The Best Life Diet


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KBHLMH's Photo KBHLMH Posts: 631
12/2/09 10:50 A

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Goal: 35

Celebrate Movement!!!

















 Pounds lost: 15.7 
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MBSHAZZER's Photo MBSHAZZER Posts: 18,605
12/2/09 10:13 A

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I am in for 125. Secretly, I will shoot for 162 because that will get me to 1,800 for the year, but I don't want to run junk miles to get there, so that remains a secret goal.

12/ 1 - 6


"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts" - Winston Churchill

2012 Running Mileage: 2,065


GOODMAR's Photo GOODMAR Posts: 2,161
12/2/09 10:11 A

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You will be the first to know if/when I can run. My goal for the month is 10 miles. I only say that because I go to the doctor on the 21st and if he says I can run, I'm gonna start small.

The Joy is in the Journey!



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JENNIE.H's Photo JENNIE.H Posts: 1,053
12/2/09 9:47 A

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This is just what I needed! I'm aiming for 65 miles this month. If I go over that would be fantastic!

- jennie

owner and instuctor of PeakFit BootCamp


www.peakfitbootcamp.com


 current weight: 135.2 
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PKELLAM's Photo PKELLAM Posts: 678
12/2/09 9:44 A

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I'm starting the month sick (Swine Flu - get your shot!!) so I'm going for 60 miles this month.



Penny


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MOM2ALEX2004's Photo MOM2ALEX2004 Posts: 3,571
12/2/09 8:32 A

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Well, I haven't made my goal for the past 2 months, but with NOLA coming up (faster & faster!) I need to get on the ball! I'm going with 65- my training plan says 75, but with my history, I need a success rather than a failure, so I'd rather go over! emoticon
65 for December!
Jill

4/13/13- Monument Ave 10k

10k PR: 1:13:49
HM PR: 2:52:26


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SALTYCHOCOLATE's Photo SALTYCHOCOLATE Posts: 12,859
12/2/09 8:21 A

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I'm shooting for 60, at least for now.

Respect life.

An attitude of gratitude can wipe away bad thoughts anytime.
- A fellow Sparker

I bleed coffee and chocolate

Fab 40's co-team leader
www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/groups_i
ndividual.asp?gid=11525


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COOPSM's Photo COOPSM Posts: 24,881
12/2/09 8:19 A

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I have not yet added up my plan for the month, but my goal is no less then 80 miles...

~Beth~

~Look me up on facebook
www.facebook.com/bethglair

~Follow me at www.facebook.com/bethglairfit?ref=hl

Runners just do it - they run for the finish line even if someone else has reached it first. ~Author Unknown


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