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BEANEREANIE's Photo BEANEREANIE Posts: 36
2/8/10 9:07 P

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thank you Im excited to learn how to deal with my dogs. I obviously figured that ceaser was using some tv magic to help him out, but it was the only resource I knew of at the time. I guess I shouldve looked into it more.

I def dont want a dog thats too scared to jump or bark or growl. I just want them to understand that Im the boss and my pit does not understand that at all. He def thinks hes in charge. Its a difficult situation cause hes my fiances dog and he got him when he was already at least 6 months and had been abused as a puppy. He never disciplined him at all cause he was abused as a puppy. We just now about 2 yrs ago got him to stop peeing in the house. He was very stubborn and did it on purpose to tell us he was unhappy for leaving him at home. Thats what I think anyway. thanks for the link Im going to check it out right now and also call my vet and ask for referrals.

"I dare you to tell me to walk through fire"


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GENERALGCS's Photo GENERALGCS SparkPoints: (0)
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2/8/10 1:29 A

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I agree with everything that Faith said. Very well written, Faith.

In addition to the places that she mentioned for training, I can personally vouch for Barkbusters (their website is Barkbusters.com). They come to your home and they guarantee the training for life of the dog--so should you need them to come back out, they will.

They use very positive methods of getting the behavior you want from the dog. We had someone come to our house and work with our guys (I had one pit and one shepherd/retriever mix at the time--since then we've added a doxie into the family). I don't have any real in-home aggression issues (and no issues with my pit), but do have issues when I'm walking the shepherd mix and come across other dogs (he can be really aggressive). Anyway, the trainer just shows you how YOU need to behave--it's never really about the dog. it's usually about how we have failed them in our ability to lead. It was great training--and it's ongoing. You are never done training the dog. I think that is something most people forget. If you stop working with the dog and go back to your old ways of dealing with the problem, they revert too.

Anyway, keep us posted on your progress. I am praying for a happy outcome.

Edited by: GENERALGCS at: 2/8/2010 (01:29)
One man's creativity is another's brain damage. --Unknown www.sparkpeople.com/resource/quotes_
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RASPUTINA101's Photo RASPUTINA101 Posts: 2,834
2/8/10 12:24 A

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You're very welcome.

Hey, I have been known to give some people the tough talk on breeding, even accidental, since I volunteer at a shelter weekly and get tired of seeing numerous pits (and all breeds) dumped at the shelter. Of course, I also understand that accidents happen and you seem to have learned the error of your ways.

I am so happy that one of our private shelters has just implemented a free spay/neuter program for pit bulls. I am also happy to report that Petsmart donated $50k over 2 years to the program and numerous people who are in difficult circumstances financially are booking appointments to have their pits spayed/neutered.

Also, I cannot say enough about NOT implementing harsh training methods. My boy Zack came to me and it was obvious someone had used Cesar style methods on him. He was literally shut down and would not bark, growl, or show any signs of discomfort. I do not want to own a dog like that who has had all their protracted warning signals punished away. They, in the end, will just be ticking time bombs. Of course, with good training methods and a lot of patience, I managed to turn my boy around and he is now a more confident dog who has a great relationship with me.

Let me know how you go with the training, or at least how the evaluation by a professional goes!
Faith






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BEANEREANIE's Photo BEANEREANIE Posts: 36
2/7/10 11:48 P

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thank you so much, that was very detailed. I really appreciate you taking the time for all that insight. we are definitely willing to spend as much time as it takes. as far as what we do with the dogs. I work days and he mostly works nights so someone is almost always here with them and always giving them attention. Except for whichever dog is locked away at the time.

I guess I should really stress that I did not intentionally breed them. A girl I worked with needed a home for her puppy and we took it thinking that Honda did need another dog to learn some sociability. He wasnt happy with her at first and did bite her when she was a puppy, we were forced not to give her any attention because that made him really jealous. now they love each other. We planned on getting her fixed right away and thought we had more time because we werent quite sure how old she was when we got her. I know she wasnt even a year when she got pregnant.

Im really hoping no one comes on here and tells me how irresponsible I was for not having her fixed right away, I am aware of this. Id really like to thank you for not going off on me as some people did on another forum I chose to post this on. Im not a pit bull breeder. It was an accident. It happened literally days after I graduated college. I was hoping she wouldnt go into heat until I was able to get a better job or start working more hours to afford it. I was really broke but so close to graduating. I had all the best intentions I swear.

we are definitely going to look into getting a behaviorist. We dont want to give either of them up and they used to be BFFs its so sad what happened.

"I dare you to tell me to walk through fire"


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RASPUTINA101's Photo RASPUTINA101 Posts: 2,834
2/7/10 10:52 P

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Hi,

I don't have time to write a detailed response but I will try.

Firstly, getting all the dogs neutered is a must. If not to get rid of any extra testosterone (and I am not saying that this will solve all your problems since I doubt it will) but we don't need any more pits being bred. Two, many reputable pit rescues would never recommend a novice owner (and I am just making an assumption here) owning same sex pits in the one home. I am off the assumption that same sex dogs of any breed, if they are going to have issues, are going to be vicious. You can be lucky that you don't have two females since same sex fights by females and much more severe than males.
Thirdly, although your dog punctured your skin which is an obvious sign that he does not have good ABI (acquired bite inhibition) which can only be installed prior to 18wks of age, and will mean that a dog will know how much bite pressure to (or not to) apply when given the chance to bite. Of course, it could have been much more severe. Now, I should also add that it sounds like your dog was redirecting since he was in close proximity to the dog that he hates. This is quite normal for any dog of any breed to redirect if placed in a heated situation and is the reason so many people get bitten when breaking up a dog fight since they often rush in and grab a dogs collar, thus being in perfect location for getting a redirected bite. This alone is not a reason to have a dog euthanized, since I meet clients in private practice who have numerous dogs that bite people in similar situations.

Now, unless you can guarantee that you will crate/rotate these two dogs, then you have no other choice but to get rid of the offending dog. Dog/dog aggression is not the same as dog/human aggression and your dog biting you in the given situation would not be described as human aggression. Dogs with aggression issues can sometimes be rehomed. Dog/dog aggression can also be worked on with behavior modification but I would definitely tell you not to look to Cesar for help with your dogs. If anything, following his traditional training methods are going to provoke your dog into biting you! His methods are outdated and ineffective - no matter how good the shows appear after editing! Please search the CCPDT for a reputable trainer to work with you. Again, behavior modification will take longer than 30 minutes and will take time and patience. I have seem amazing results and it can be done. Of course, some game bred pits may be more inclined for dog/dog issues, so it could be more work than you are willing to devote time to fixing.

www.ccpdt.org/

Since you mentioned not being able to guarantee that your dogs won't get other opportunities to get at each other, than it would be humane and responsible to rehome, euthanize the dog, or get a qualified (positive based) trainer to work with you. We, as in pittie owners, cannot afford for another pit to make the news if it ends up in the wrong home with people who cannot manage its issues.

I would also recommend contacting any pittie rescues in your neighborhood and see if they have any input. What is your dog like with other dogs? It could just be that dogs from the same family are more prone to issues especially when one dog begins to mature. All breeds of dog change as they mature. How much socialization have your dogs gotten? How much training do they have? IMO adding a JRT and a pit is just one big terrier with lots of energy, lots of determination and alot of drive - not always a good mix if their needs are not being directed into appropriate outlets (again, I don't know you or how much you do with your dogs). Did you intentionally breed these dogs?

IMO the outcome is very simple because if you are not willing to put in the time, energy, and expense for a professional trainer, then rehoming or euthanization are your only options. On the other hand, I hate to see a dog euthanized if dog aggression is the only issue, but it is a management issues and for all the dogs safety, it needs to be addressed. The more opportunities your dogs get to fight and rehearse bad behavior, the better they will get at fighting. And please, get all the dogs fixed whatever you decide to do!








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BEANEREANIE's Photo BEANEREANIE Posts: 36
2/7/10 7:16 P

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Im new to this team, and really dont hardly post on sparkpeople too much to be honest but I have a serious issue with my pitbull family and would like any insight/opinions I can get.

I have 3 dogs, a mom a dad and a son. The mom is 1/2 pit 1/2 Jack Russell she's neutral and gets along with both dogs. the males, however, used to be best friends for the whole 1st year of Jr's life but then I gave Jr to my brother for a month. Things didnt work out for my brother and I had to bring JR. home, in that month of time, I had moved into a new place. I think this may have something to do with the problem I have now. Jr's dad Honda wants to kill Jr.and vise versa. Honda is a pure blood pit bull who is very stubborn and has the physical capacity to take his son out of this world. Jr, being 3/4 pit is pretty tough himself and is just as capable of taking out his dad. for the past 7 months, we've had to keep them separated, switching them out several times a day so they each get equal amount of time with us and thingy (my female). this system works pretty well, except for days like today where I thought I had closed the door to Hondas room all the way, went to let Jr out and spent about an hour smearing blood all over the walls, floor, and self trying to separate them. It took super mom strength to even be able to do it all by myself. I thank God I was able to end it before they had ripped each others faces off which it was getting pretty close. This is a horrible thing to have to put my dogs through and its not right. In fact, it could probably be considered a crime even keeping these two dogs in this house for the fact that there is no 100% proof way of keeping them from at some point fighting like this. My fiance and I cannot give either of them up. Honda is his dog and hes had him for about 6 years, hes his child. I cant make the decision myself to have him put down cause thats the only option with him, no ones gonna wanna take a pitbull like this and thats what the humane society would do. They dont put pit bulls up for adoption, they just kill them. Also, we always said that if he bit either one of us, wed put him down. Well he bit me today. Totally intentionally not even by accident. I was holding both dogs by their collars with all my might to keep them from getting at each other, Honda did not like this and bit me. He put 2 punctures in my skin, one from his top tooth and one from his bottom. I know he could've done more than this if he wanted and was just telling me that he was upset. I do not like this, a dog should NOT bite his owner. I love Honda and do not have the heart to put him down, I know he was all worked up and in the moment. We cannot get rid of Jr either. We love him way to much and have gotten way too attached. My fiance wants to pay for obedience training, but short of driving the dogs out to CA and having ceaser milan wave his magic wand over them, Im not sure any dog trainer is capable of dealing with this issue entirely. We just had Honda neutered over a month ago and are making an appt for Jr soon. we thought after they were both fixed, as is the female, any hormonal dominance issues would be resolved and we can then work w/ these two. After today, I dont think its possible, even for a professional. This past summer, after watching all of the dog whisperer episodes I could find on youtube, I had gotten both dogs to walk side by side down the bike trail without a prob. it worked just like Ceaser showed in the videos. as soon as we get back home, however, its a different story. This is Hondas territory. We've also thrown around the idea that maybe when we move again and they both get brought into the new place together, we can start the process over. not sure if this will work either. we've also considered getting shock collars and/or dog mase to use in instances like this. Also, my fiance and I are getting married in a couple months and in the next few years, plan on adding children to the mix. I dont think its responsible of us as parents to keep a dog that did bite his owner. What if he bit the kid? I would feel so horribly guilty. Hes not a "vicious dog" and has never, before this had issues with people or children. only other dogs. any input at all will be appreciated. Whatever decision we come to, it'll be up to the both of us to agree on and any outside suggestions or insight will really help us to look at all the options. Thanks in advance :(

Edited by: BEANEREANIE at: 2/7/2010 (19:17)
"I dare you to tell me to walk through fire"


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