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SHIRLEY721's Photo SHIRLEY721 SparkPoints: (0)
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8/13/13 10:58 A

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Perhaps in your area the jails and prisions aren't crowded with what I consider minor offences.But I live in one part of the country part of the year.FL.and big opposite rural IN.In both areas you get drunk on Fri.or Sat.night.You are not driving a big NO NO or beating anyone up or stealing whatever.You are just staggering down the sidewalk and guess what? You get arrested for public intoxication and stay in the jail all night.You are out of work and no bail money so you stay 30 days.Who feeds you? We do our taxes.Get sick in there and who pays that bill? There are other minor things.When I was young the police looked the other way or even drove you home.Now so many are arrested for other minor things.Sentences too long.Prisions and jails packed and the really powerful criminals walk around or are driven in their luxery cars and get by with ANYTHING! emoticon emoticon

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CD833620 Posts: 42,077
8/13/13 10:10 A

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Didn’t I get behind on this one… Myrea, the reference to 90% was related to the specific case I saw in the paper (that was the reduction his lawyer was asking for) it as far from representing some kind of statistics.

I don’t think a justice service can function without fairness, but definitely it should work regardless forgiveness.

While it is clear that there are circumstances that aggravate or alleviate (sorry, couldn’t find a better word) a certain crime, I do not see how “he is a good boy”, or “She is a good Christian” should interfere at all with the outcome of a sentence for a crime.

The system should not be a path for revenge, but also, punishment cannot be so irrelevant that reward the criminal behavior.

Penny, Fake it till you make it is one of my favorite mottos.

I truly think that the justice system in the US became to lenient, and because of this we see people that are convicted multiple times and given the chance of doing it again.


BRIDIE5 Posts: 8,121
8/11/13 8:39 P

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Detachment requires three steps in my experience..becoming aware, acknowledging the reality, and finally letting go. It takes work at first, becomes easier as time goes on. Positive thoughts are with you gf..

Edited by: BRIDIE5 at: 8/11/2013 (22:41)
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SHIRLEY721's Photo SHIRLEY721 SparkPoints: (0)
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8/11/13 7:42 P

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By the way Val I'm so sorry for your pain and I agree with what coachpenny said too. emoticon

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SHIRLEY721's Photo SHIRLEY721 SparkPoints: (0)
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8/11/13 7:39 P

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I am so glad that I am neither a judge or a criminal lawyer.Something so horrible a thing was commited one county from me about a month ago.One of my granddaughters and her children know the girl who visited in her home the day before this girl was murdered oh and raped first.Anyway the monster's who did it and thank God were caught 2 days later said that she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.They discussed the 2. men that the next female they saw walking down the sidewalk they would rape and murder.After raping her they strangled her and tied weights to her body and threw her in a lake (actually it was what we rednecks call a strip pit)they are caused by coal mine operations and are literally bottomless pits.By a miracle her body still came to the top.Water was found in her lungs so she was still alive when thrown in.On arrest they talked about this as if though they were discussing the weather.I would like to see old testament law in their case.I do believe they will recieve life sentences but who could forgive such monsters?.You could probably go online and read about this in The Linton Daily Citizen.This is the worst thing I've heard of in my 78 years.I am so glad she was not my daughter.I don't think I could forgive.I think this occured around a month ago.

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COACHPENNY's Photo COACHPENNY Posts: 10,392
8/7/13 10:18 P

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Sorry you are suffering, Val. Even indifference takes negative energy. My DD said something the other day.....Fake it till you make it. Maybe that will help.



“A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones who need the advice.”

Bill Cosby


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4EVRYOUNG Posts: 5,174
8/7/13 6:37 P

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Okay ya'll are probably sick of me making a thread personal but here goes.

Since the day I posted last that I've come to a realization.

One. Willam true forgiveness is not for the benefit of the one you forgive but for yourself. Forgiving doesn't mean forgetting. "not forgiving causes you take the poison that you mean for the other person."

The justice system is not suppose to gage remorse it's to determine guilt or innocence and apply punishment if indicated. Not saying that's the way it's done.

For me I'm realizing that forgiveness will not change what happened and if anything the person I need to foregive will only feel more guilt. It will stop the bitterness I feel. The person I need to forgive is not suffering, I am. The best I can do is live my life and be happy in the moment and accept that indifference is the most this person will ever get from me.

As you can tell I talk a good game. I haven't followed my own counsel and not sure when I will. For the time being I'm practicing indifference. Their are enough people around me to carry the grudge for me.





Val

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got!
COACHPENNY's Photo COACHPENNY Posts: 10,392
8/7/13 5:57 P

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Yes, a true sociopath would not necessarily respond to rehabilitation. He/she might act the part, but not feel the pain. I do think that criminal behavior has many other roots that have to do with environment, nurture, lack of acceptance into the norm of civilized society AND a lack of consequence. I think consequence should go hand in hand with rehabilitation.

There isn't enough space to keep everyone who commits a crime locked up forever. Some crimes and some criminals may warrant that. Others do not, but putting them back out into the same set of circumstances that created the offender begs a repeat offense.



“A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones who need the advice.”

Bill Cosby


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BRIDIE5 Posts: 8,121
8/7/13 4:33 P

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I think "no remorse" speaks to sociopathic behaviors ,which are not qualities one can rehabilitate in the eyes of many. Regrets OTOH speak to humanity, which in the eyes of many can be rehabilitated. I have no opinion either way..talk is cheap, actions speak louder, and forgiveness is up to the Most High should He/She feel inclined.

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COACHPENNY's Photo COACHPENNY Posts: 10,392
8/7/13 10:33 A

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"The legal system should not be a path to revenge. Ideally, it would be a path to making society a better place for everyone."

I agree, but as long as punishment without rehabilitation is norm, this won't happen.



“A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones who need the advice.”

Bill Cosby


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MYREALANA's Photo MYREALANA SparkPoints: (0)
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8/6/13 10:01 A

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By the way, I'm not saying in this case his remorse is genuine, or that his sad letter should have bearing. It doesn't sound like the DA is buying it either.

Also, in reading some other articles about the case, the guy ought to be happy he is even there to cry his crocodile tears. The victim had a legal concealed Glock on him at the time, and given the fact that it's Florida, he would have been legally justified in putting a very quick end to Davis's homophobia.

--Myrea

"If you can't do something smart, do something right." --
Shepherd Book


MYREALANA's Photo MYREALANA SparkPoints: (0)
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8/6/13 9:51 A

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And then, on courts and trials there is always the apologies, the crying, the regrets. So, if one commits a crime and afterwards this person cries in public and reads a little letter is enough to shed the possible sentence in 90%? It sounds easy, doesn’t it? It is no surprise that people commit crimes galore, since they can get away with it with some lame speech.
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I'de like to see your citation for the 90% of criminals that get away with their crimes because of a letter and crying in public. I'm pretty sure you're extremely wrong - especially if the accused is a black male. I'd bet the real statistics skew exactly opposite.
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How can a legal system work based on such ethereal concepts?
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How can justice exist without such etherial concepts as fairness and forgiveness?

Is it only the facts of the event which determine the offense and punishment? Is shooting a person in anger the same as shooting a person in fear or in hatred? Is the same 10 year sentence appropriate for the person who committed a crime out of desperation as it for the the person who just thought it would be fun at the time? Does every event have the same moral weight regardless of the person's state of mind?

I don't think the point of our legal system is to dispense appropriate revenge for every offense. I think the point of our system is supposed to be to help build a more just society for everyone. Punishment offers some deterrent to crime, but our system is also supposed to rehabilitate those who can be saved, and preserve from punishment, those who aren't served by the deterrent. If someone shows genuine remorse, and can be a law-abiding, productive member of society, then a long prison sentence might not be the right answer. I would bet for a lot of crimes, a community service sentence would be better for everyone in the long run.

The legal system should not be a path to revenge. Ideally, it would be a path to making society a better place for everyone.

--Myrea

"If you can't do something smart, do something right." --
Shepherd Book


CD833620 Posts: 42,077
8/6/13 8:42 A

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I am sorry Val, but I cannot help you. I have never understood the concept of forgiveness, and I am quite sure I am incapable of doing it.

4EVRYOUNG Posts: 5,174
8/4/13 12:39 P

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How do you measure "remorse?" When is an apology "sincere?" When are mere words not enough?

I'm dealing with these issues on a personal level these days. Forgiveness can only be given by the person/persons offended. It's necessary to be at peace with yourself to practice true forgiveness. I don't guess I'm there yet.

In the judicial system it's necessary for someone in an official capacity with some level of objectivity to decide to punish or grant mercy. All a judge has is the individual's words, past or lack of past transgressions and the words of the individual's friends and family.

Even if this was the first time this person ever did anything remotely violent or criminal a certain level of punishment is necessary in order for him to learn there are repercussions for bad acts.

On a personal level the person I'm having trouble forgiving has repeated the same behavior a multitude of times. The most recent being at a time when the individual they transgressed against needed complete loyalty and support.

If anyone has the answers, I would appreciate the guidance.



Val

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got!
CD833620 Posts: 42,077
8/3/13 12:17 P

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Every time I see something like this in the papers I wonder. How does a judicial system work when based on intangible matters?

There is the classic and very famous issue that to get residency in the US, a foreigner does not have only to marry an American citizen/resident, they have to prove that their marriage is based on “true love”. How one is supposed to prove such a thing? Most of countries all it takes is a marriage. The legal prove that two people got united by the law.

And then, on courts and trials there is always the apologies, the crying, the regrets. So, if one commits a crime and afterwards this person cries in public and reads a little letter is enough to shed the possible sentence in 90%? It sounds easy, doesn’t it? It is no surprise that people commit crimes galore, since they can get away with it with some lame speech.

In the link below, a man shot another one during the gay pride (OK, it was a BB gun, still an attack). What really called my attention is in the end of the article the mention to the discussion between defense and prosecution of the “level of remorse” of the perpetrator. Does it matter? Does it change the attack? Does it change the nature of the behavior?

How can a legal system work based on such ethereal concepts?



www.tampabay.com/news/courts/crimina
l/
st-petersburg-man-apologizes-for-bb-R>gun-shooting-at-gay-pride-event/2134489


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