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ERIN1957's Photo ERIN1957 Posts: 10,241
10/21/13 2:53 P

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Good to see you here!
Good luck on this journey!
And always enjoy what you are doing!
Let us know how it is going, we have a sort of chat sharing are, "hitting the numbers" on the team thread a lot of personal information there as well on what we are doing or going through.

Walk through your journey with a loving open heart and as well mind. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Laugh, if at nothing else yourself.







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FULLFIGUREDGAL's Photo FULLFIGUREDGAL Posts: 353
10/21/13 8:02 A

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MOMOFMADELYN...

Thank you for reposting this information! I stopped KETO in March due to health issues that are non related but have been in and out of dr's offices getting better before doing it again.

Decided to back on the KETO way of living now that my health issues are resolved. I know I wasn't doing it right, as I am new to it and all the info out there was so confusing...but this post makes it a lot more simpler to start off with...I'm starting today! :)

Erin1957: I love what you posted about it having to be individualized for each person because of all the different factors...this is something I stress to a lot of people with regards to weight loss in general...the biased mindset is always "diet & exercise" one size fits all otherwise if someone is not losing like others then they are not really trying...we all have to play with our individual plans and see what works for us, customizing all aspects of it as we go along...and you're on point when you stress that even then every few weeks you have to reevaluate because as you move forward, what worked before might stop working because your body is now at a new level...

AWESOME and INFORMATIVE posts everyone...a great help! emoticon

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ERIN1957's Photo ERIN1957 Posts: 10,241
10/10/13 5:15 A

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Yours is great, mine is desperate LOL
Good Luck and always enjoy your journey!
emoticon

Edited by: ERIN1957 at: 10/10/2013 (05:16)
Walk through your journey with a loving open heart and as well mind. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Laugh, if at nothing else yourself.







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LUV2LAQUILT SparkPoints: (8,781)
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10/9/13 8:46 P

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Great minds think alike! I just posted a thread about this very subject, but this is way more informational but what I was looking for. I'm going to check out those links Erin posted.

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ERIN1957's Photo ERIN1957 Posts: 10,241
10/9/13 7:13 P

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A link that has a bunch of other links as well throughout it. This page is helping with calculations of percentages or numbers we are targeting.
www.livefreefromobesity.co.uk/keto-c
al
culator/

It has both metric and US forms of measurements.

Scrolling through it there is this link too, that goes along with Phinney and Volek's book, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance. But I believe you can use it without the book as well.
keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
It is very detailed. But wow it is pretty much laid out with what numbers you should be working toward and with.

There are different methods and as well percentages that people target. All the way from 60-90% fat and as well the % for protein and as well carbs. This calculation takes a lot of your information and gives you the results. So you are not working with the young athlete's numbers and goals, but your own set of numbers.

Custom fit for you. I as well found blogs talking about this subject and many were saying, to redo the numbers with every 5-7 pound weight loss. Because as the weight drops our body and ourselves change as well.

I thought it was pretty cool.

Walk through your journey with a loving open heart and as well mind. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Laugh, if at nothing else yourself.







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HOPE-IN-MOTION's Photo HOPE-IN-MOTION Posts: 45
10/9/13 5:28 P

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Awesome! I have been watching endless videos from Eric Westman at Duke University, Jimmy Moore, and Taubes. I am learning this, and believe it is the way for me to eat.

Loving the cocoa fat bombs. I recently bought The Fat-Fast Cookbook--oh yeah!

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

STOP THAT.


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ERIN1957's Photo ERIN1957 Posts: 10,241
10/9/13 4:06 P

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Loving Grain Brain, by David Perlmutter, MD.
I bought the CD pack of 8.
Got through capture 2 today.
How could anyone ever doubt the science and this man's credentials.
He is my new hero!
emoticon

Walk through your journey with a loving open heart and as well mind. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Laugh, if at nothing else yourself.







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ERIN1957's Photo ERIN1957 Posts: 10,241
10/9/13 1:37 P

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Thanks so much for the video, Kristin. I sure am enjoying this journey of Keto!

Walk through your journey with a loving open heart and as well mind. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Laugh, if at nothing else yourself.







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KRISTINSGOALS's Photo KRISTINSGOALS SparkPoints: (83,793)
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10/9/13 1:01 P

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Awesome, info, Deb!! Thank you!

Here's a video to go along with it:

vimeo.com/61215449#at=0

Goals aren't for sissies!

Kristin

5'9"
Goal weight - 135 lbs.

PST - Las Vegas, Nevada

Rockin' Red Foxes Team


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ADZY86's Photo ADZY86 Posts: 1,150
10/9/13 5:30 A

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Wow! Thanks for all the info, that was so helpful. The one thing I have been struggling with and seeing lots of differing information on was how much protein I should be eating, in grams. I try and stick to around 70/20/10, and I'm pretty good at keeping my carb percentage under 10%, but my protein sometimes creeps up to around 25%. I don't stress about it, but I'm glad to now have a good idea of where Dr Phinney thinks we should be. I do sometimes eat over that (if I indulge in too many chicken thighs usually! lol) but it's a good marker.

Those calorie numbers....eeeek! That's pretty high! Mine currently comes out at 2990 (I used the *35 figure because I am very active). Even dropping down to around 2490 is loads for me. I really don't think my appetite could stretch to that amount, even if I did add extra fat I would just be stuffed all the time. I don't stress out about calories, I eat when I'm hungry, and I don't when I'm not. And that seems to be working just fine so far. But this is good to know for if/when I do experience a stall.

ERIN1957's Photo ERIN1957 Posts: 10,241
10/9/13 5:25 A

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I was seriously reading last evening about these exact things. Received my Grain Brain CD set and will start listening to that while staying active running errands.
I as well went back and looked over my numbers I achieved at my highest weight loss. It was interesting and thank God I track everything.

I will be switching things up a wee bit. The weeks I lost the most and had higher ketones numbers (which are now a lot lower) 2 -3, now can't even break 1. Were lower fats , higher carbs and higher proteins, but still keeping proteins lower than fat.

It does prove, we each have to work with programs for ourselves to achieve what we need to.
It is or should I say, we are a work in progress.
I have to know, what is good for a very active 28 year old is not the diet for this 56 year old with moderate activity. That has had 6 children and a family history of obesity. I have to get to that point where my diet is feeding me what I need to be; active, healthy and lose weight. There is no way I should eat what many say I should. I did that calorie game in August and gained weight. I knew I would just have to bite the bullet and do exactly what they had said for my size and goal, then dropping the 500kcals to obtain weight loss. I stand 4'11", small boned. I don't burn what they all state in their calculations. I have a very messed up body with a lot of issues...metabolically.
I have taken these several weeks to find my sweet spot. It wasn't these last two weeks. I do my trial and error for two weeks at a time. I do feel good, but I know I can do better and as well feel better.

Today is my weigh in day and I am anxious to see what the clinic's scale comes up with. My home scale reads I have stayed the same. Losing only one pound in two weeks.
In September during my two week period where I lost the most, I lost 8 pounds, the two weeks before that 4 pounds.
I truly believe as we lose and as we go through our own phases, we will need to adjust what we do. Maintenance is a whole different game from those first 20 and every 5 pounds following. For me at least. And it does take dedication.

Thanks for this information. I do believe for starting out, these formula numbers are a good place to start and work from there.
There are so many factors that play into everything to do with weight loss and health; meds, family history, health, diet history, med history, not even taking into consideration; sex, height, weight, bone density, ethnicity, surgeries so on and so on. It all are factors in and needs careful consideration. We truly have to know what our needs are and work diligently to find that unique place we fall into. I know ketosis works and as well the higher fat, moderate proteins, and yes even "good" carbs at that 50gross grams. But I as well know, for me I have to stay lower than anyone claims, to drop weight. It is not a lot, only a hand full of calories literally.

So I am back to trying what I did those two sweet weeks I lost the most weight. Just checking and working on me! Isn't this all exciting, owning our own plan and working for ourselves for health, and a healthy weight!?!

Edited by: ERIN1957 at: 10/9/2013 (05:52)
Walk through your journey with a loving open heart and as well mind. Treat others as you would like to be treated.
Laugh, if at nothing else yourself.







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EXOTEC's Photo EXOTEC Posts: 3,327
10/9/13 12:13 A

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Thanks for that repost! but WOW! those numbers seem pretty high to me... I'll take their word(s) for it... those guys are reliable resources.

Sheesh
I think I'll start with the calculator again!



...the problem with people these days is
they've forgotten we're really just animals ...
(attributation forgotten)

We did not create the web of life; we are but a strand in it.
~attributed to Chief Seattle

We don't have souls. We ARE souls. We have bodies.
~C.S. Lewis


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MOMOFMADELYN's Photo MOMOFMADELYN Posts: 29
10/8/13 9:48 P

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All of the info I am posting here is from a series of threads on another message board (Low Carb Friends, Nutritional Ketosis forum). I had found much of this info helpful when I started NK last year, and since the person who had amassed and presented all of this info does not seem to be present on that site any more, I hope he won't mind that I am copy and pasting it over here for the benefit of others.


Welcome to the April High Fat 80/15/5 NK thread! Our goal is a healthy LC high fat macro and mandatory daily protein regimen resulting in a state of Nutritional Ketosis. Ideal ratios for fat range from about 65% to 85% of calories. Protein is kept moderate. Total carbs are 50g or less. The short version is: Eat your required protein grams, keep total carbs low and the rest of your calories are fat. This is not a very low calorie thread.

Protein
In his book, Dr. Phinney recommends 1.5-2.0g/kg reference weight for protein grams. Separately Dr. Phinney has said that he leans towards 1.0-1.5g/kg reference weight. Reference weight is the appropriate weight for your height. It is important to use the correct weight for the formula because overeating protein can interfere with weight loss. So use the right weight even if you have a higher intermediate goal weight.

The formula looks like this: (goal weight / 2.2) * 1.5 = daily protein grams.

For example: Your goal weight is 150. (150/2.2)*1.5 = 102g protein a day.

Protein II
Use the 1.5g/kg from the published book as your start point. If you need to you can fall back to the 1.0-1.5g/kg range. (On a Fat Burning Man podcast with Jimmy Moore about NK, Jimmy said that Dr. Phinney told him he leaned towards 1.0-1.5g/kg reference weight. The exchange starts at 15:58 in the podcast. "Whereas people like Steve Phinney, who co-wrote this book I was talking about, he says it is closer to 1.0 to 1.5 [grams protein per kg of reference weight]".
Google 'fat burning man Nutritional Ketosis, Trashing Your Scale, and the Dark Side of Protein'.)

Fat: Most of your calories should come from fat.
Carbs: 50g total carbs (not net) or less. Start low on carbs.
Calories: According to Dr. Phinney, an obese person burns about 30kCal per kg of weight and a moderately active adult close to their correct weight burns 35kCal per kg of weight. He attributes the difference, 30 to 35, to an obese person being more sedentary than a person at the right weight for their body.

From page 207 of The Art and Science of Low Carb Living: "As an aside, the casual reader might protest that these energy expenditure numbers look pretty high. But for anyone that has worked with obese humans in a metabolic research ward, 30kcal per kg of actual body weight in the sedentary obese and 35 kcal/kg in the post-obese moderately active adult are actually quite conservative expenditure values."

For example: You are fat, your goal weight is 150 and right now you weigh 225.

225lb current calorie expenditure: (225/2.2)*30 = 3068
150lb goal weight calorie expenditure: (150/2.2)*35 = 2386

Calories II
How much should you eat? I don't know but it is probably not as little as you think. Use the formula to guestimate your current calorie expenditure and then start with 500 less calories. In the example above, that'd be a start point of about 2500 a day.

There are many health risks related to eating very low calories, like loss of lean body mass and metabolism down regulation, and it is hard to stick to a plan with very low calories. Very low calorie plans frequently result in binges which will wreck your efforts at NK. Start high and work down as needed but go down slowly. Panic is the enemy of success.

Macros
Macro ratios are a great tool to help you keep an eye on what you are doing but they can be very deceptive. 15% protein at 1500 calories is very different from 15% at 3000 calories. You can have great looking macros that are hiding terrible real numbers. Don't get stuck on macro percentages. Always check your protein grams to make sure you are eating to your goal.

Tape Measure
You should measure yourself periodically. Knowing that you are losing inches can help keep you from wildly tweaking what you are doing when what you are doing is working even if the scale is saying otherwise. And it feels good to know you have lost inches.

Sodium
Consider your own health condition and any Rx meds but... low carb is not a low sodium way of eating or living. You *must* get your sodium in or your body will suffer. It might suffer silently for a long time before it finally breaks. Or it might express itself as agonizing leg cramps. Those cramps are caused by dehydration and/or a potassium deficiency but if you are a low sodium consumer then your sodium deficiency is contributing to your potassium loss and dehydration. The body excretes potassium if it is forced to conserve sodium because you are not getting enough. That is how important sodium is to your body. Phinney advises 5 Grams of sodium daily. That is a lot of sodium. Fear not! Unless you are going out of your way to eat low sodium you are probably getting 2 to 4 grams in your food every day. A little extra use of the salt shaker will fix up most people just fine. It is worth taking a look at how much sodium you are getting if you use a food logger. Table salt is not one for one on sodium grams. Google for the conversion 'how much sodium in table salt'. If you've been a casual low sodium person then you should pay careful attention to what you are eating and dun your former salt eschewing ways.

The body will cannabalize LBM for potassium if it has to. So, low sodium leads to sacrifice potassium leads to rob lean tissue for potassium leads to poor LC results


Weight Fluctuations

To paraphrase the esteemed Dr. Phinney.... Everyone has a 'window' of weight. The body is fairly lax about how much fluid it retains at any given time and this is generally about 4 pounds worth. Think of it as one of those horizontal lava doodads with the blue fluid doing a seesaw motion. So. You are kicking butt and shedding weight. You weigh in at the low point on the seesaw with your fluid balance low. A day or a week goes by and you weigh in again. You *have* lost 2 pounds. *But* the seesaw of fluid is now at its high end completely masking your 2 pounds and possibly even showing a gain.

The next day you weigh in again, having lost another .5 pound off your body for real but the blue fluid has tilted to its low end this time and WHOOSH you see a 5 pound drop!

That is why daily weigh ins are interesting but if you happen to be blessed with a wildly tilting blue doodad you are gonna have baffling daily, even weekly, weigh ins. Depending on how fine tuned your way of eating is and how fast or slow you lose weight, Phinney even pushed it out to a full month of this phenomenon masking a net loss - 1 pound a week lost for 4 pounds total for the month but your lava machine is tilted to the high point and you see a disappointing scale reading. No weight lost on the scale or even a few ounces gained.


Again, I take no credit for this info, but hope it will be helpful.

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