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ELISAMLW's Photo ELISAMLW SparkPoints: (0)
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2/26/11 5:55 P

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I totally agree about the LDR pace.. according to calculators I should be doing a pace that is 1-2 minutes slower than what is comfortable for me. There is NO WAY I could pull that off! I've never run that slow in my life. For the LDR I focus on covering the distance and keeping it loose and comfortable.

Let us run the race with endurance! (Hebrews 12:1)
Morton Pumpkin Festival 10K (9/18/2010) 1:03:51
Hot Chocolate 15K (11/6/2010) 1:36:45
Schaumburg Turkey Trot 5K (11/27/2010) 28:43 PR

Shamrock Shuffle (4/10/11)
Race for the Cure 5K (5/7/11)

My Blog: newmerciesdaily.blogspot.com

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MBSHAZZER's Photo MBSHAZZER Posts: 18,605
2/16/11 5:20 P

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Thanks, Darcy.... I find that running *too* slow is harder, so you may be onto something. And great advice about the foam roller BEFORE a run - what a great idea!

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts" - Winston Churchill

2012 Running Mileage: 2,065

2/16/11 2:26 A

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Sharon - I know I left a comment on your blog, but I had a couple other thoughts about this after reading the other replies. Hope that is ok if I comment again. emoticon

I totally hear ya about running at a comfortable pace. I run my long runs at a bit more relaxed pace usually than my inner-week runs, but still not super slow. But when I started my marathon training, some of these distances really intimidated me, and I was ultra paranoid about injury, so I took my long runs REEEEAAAALLY slow. I personally find that running really slow really makes me tense up. I feel like I am trying to hold myself back, which ends up making me feel sluggish and fatigued, and I actually experience more tension in my legs than when I run a bit faster. Could this have been part of your problem? Maybe, because of your experience with your first marathon, you were nervous about starting out too fast, plus the excitement/nervousness of racing - maybe that contributed to your physical tension in your legs and hips.

One other thing I have been doing that I think has helped me so much as far as tension goes, is to do a session with the foam roller BEFORE my long runs, even if I don't feel like I NEED it. I target all my usually tension areas, even if I can't find trigger points, just to get it all good and loosened up before I run. Just a couple of thoughts.

Really when it comes down to it, it is all a guessing game to tell how or why we perform the way we do on race day. You are doing good at trying to analyze and change up your plan. I still think you did a GREAT job, but I know we always think later that we should have done better, run faster, or whatever. But you did great!


My PRs:
5K Run: 22:55 (non-race)
10K Run: 46:16
Half Marathon: 1:43:12
30K: 2:43:54
Marathon: 3:47:44

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MBSHAZZER's Photo MBSHAZZER Posts: 18,605
2/3/11 10:04 A

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Denise, I would never throw anything at you! LOL!

Someone else suggested that about the long run pace, but I am a big believer in running at a comfortable pace. Training for my first marathon, I kept the pace slow and it was definitely more of an effort to finish the long runs than when I let my body go to it's comfortable pace.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts" - Winston Churchill

2012 Running Mileage: 2,065

MBSHAZZER's Photo MBSHAZZER Posts: 18,605
2/3/11 10:01 A

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Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I am kind of mad at myself because during the taper, I felt like I was not running enough but chalked it up to taper madness. Just goes to show, always listen to your body!

I start training for #3 next month and I will definitely change up my taper routine and see how that goes.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts" - Winston Churchill

2012 Running Mileage: 2,065

2/3/11 9:59 A

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ok..please don't throw things at me..but is it possible that you ran your long runs too fast and you actually "ran your race" during your training? I know you ran some fast long runs. My marathon PR was when I over tapered..missing my 20 miler from 3 weeks before and having run no more than a 13 mile long run in 5 weeks..

just something to think about..do you have a local running coach that you might be able to talk to? I know my coach is not happy when I train faster than the paces she gives me since it leads to injury and overtraining..

~ Denise ~

"What doesn't kill me will make me stronger"

Marathons in IL, OH, MI, WI, IN and TX 44 states to go

2011 goal - 1500 miles (2010 actual was 1300)

2/13/11 - Frosty 5 Miler - 46:53 (9:23 pace) - PR!
3/20/11 - March Madness - 2:10:59
5/11 - Half (goal 2:05)
Fall marathon (goal 4:30)

PERSONAL RECORDS (50-54 age group):
5K (5/22/10) - 28:15
10K (9/8/07) - 59:46
Half Marathon (3/16/08) - 2:09:44

 current weight: 126.6 
ZIRCADIA's Photo ZIRCADIA SparkPoints: (0)
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2/3/11 9:58 A

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I have a friend from RWOL that runs a BUTTLOAD of marathons. Actually a few of them. Anyway - they frequently do not taper as much as traditional marathon training programs suggest because for them, it is too drastic based on their routine coverage of that mileage. I believe the popular phrase is "rest not rust" and you have to figure out what level works for you in that way - that you are getting a good amount of glycogen storage built right before the race, and you're not making yourself sore, but you're still running and keeping loose.

To me, leading up to the marathon that week running 9, 4, 3, 3 doesn't sound too drastic, but maybe the weeks BEFORE that were cut down too low? Some pals of mine will frequently just do a reduced taper, lowering miles ONLY that week before, making the LR the week before not as long, but before that mostly running what they usually do.

Edited by: ZIRCADIA at: 2/3/2011 (10:00)


SP Start Date - 1/15/2007 Starting Weight - 290
Ending Weight - 185


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TAMTAM64's Photo TAMTAM64 Posts: 9,803
2/3/11 9:38 A

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I totally agree with Teal. Tapering really should be based on your running fitness - now that's just my opinion. You trained so well for this past marathon. In reality, your normal long run was always around 16 miles so you really only up your long run by 4 miles. You may not need to cut your mileage back as much as others that are not as fit as you. You may also want to consider increasing your normal long run to 17 - 18 miles then increasing that distance to 22 - 23 miles. Just a thought...

It's something to think about & to experiment with. But always stay true to what your body tells you - if it is tired, give it some rest. If it is ready to keep on running, run a little harder or further.

Tammy - West Monroe, Louisiana

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MBSHAZZER's Photo MBSHAZZER Posts: 18,605
2/3/11 9:36 A

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Yes, the week before, I ran 9 miles, 4 miles, 3 miles, 3 miles.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts" - Winston Churchill

2012 Running Mileage: 2,065

2/3/11 9:26 A

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I think in your case Sharon, your normal runs are such high mileage that your body is used to putting in that distance.
Did you run at all the week before?

5K PR 32:12
4Mile PR 51.03
10K PR 1:12:35
15k PR 1:52:27
13.1 PR 2:27
30k PR 3:47:06
26.2 PR 5:39:50
50k PR 7:37

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 current weight: 152.0 
MBSHAZZER's Photo MBSHAZZER Posts: 18,605
2/3/11 9:10 A

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I just finished marathon #2 and while I felt really strong the whole way through, my hips and quads got VERY tight and sore around mile 5. This totally bummed me out because I never encountered tight hips and quads during any of my training runs. I completed all of my long runs with no problems, pain or soreness, and I even ran the marathon at a slower pace than my training.

After the race, I was talking to INDYCHX and she suggested that since I didn't really "train" for the marathon, maybe I didn't need as much of a taper as I did (reducing mileage by ~30% from peak each week). When I am not training, my weekly mileage is ~ 40 MPW with a long run of 16 miles. All I did differently to train was make the long run 18 or 20 miles each weekend.

That kind of makes sense to me - someone who has really ramped up their mileage in training might need more of a taper to recover than someone who hasn't.

I'd be curious to know what others think. I have another marathon in June, and while I understand that discomfort during a marathon is likely inevitable, I would like to delay it as long as possible!


"Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts" - Winston Churchill

2012 Running Mileage: 2,065

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