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SERGEANTMAJOR's Photo SERGEANTMAJOR Posts: 6,652
7/31/09 2:36 P

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@DISCDOG

Doing one exercise will not specifically degrade another exercise unless exactly the same muscles are involved in the same type of movement. Going from chin ups to squats the first will have no bearing on your ability to do the second with regard to muscle fatigue. Inability to do follow on exercises is a function of energy available and endurance. Energy available is a function of what you ate yesterday not anything you can consume immediately prior to a workout.

With regard to maximizing the work on a targeted muscle group, the more muscles you can tense and recruit the stronger that muscle group can react as a result of muscle synergy. This is why I am an advocate of total body and compound movements.

Edited by: SERGEANTMAJOR at: 7/31/2009 (14:38)

It is called WORK-ing out for a reason.

I said getting fit was simple, I did not say it was easy.

Cardio burns calories, strength work burns fat.

Eat well to lose weight, exercise to get fit

You can not build a six pack using twelve packs


Often when we seek a magic bullet for fitness we end up shooting ourselves in the foot.

"I think calories are little germs in food that all moms are afraid of" Dennis the Menace

NANCYJAC's Photo NANCYJAC Posts: 11,488
7/30/09 8:19 P

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Well as a PT I don't set up workouts that way. There are many more (and more important)variabiles than whether some one is a beginner, intermediate, or advanced. For instance, one person could be advanced in terms of being at or near there maximum fitness level and another person could be a beginner using the same routine.

What I do is pick a starting point for clients based on a single rep maximum and then work down from there. This data also tell me which muscle groups are currently weakest and strongest. It also depends on your goals. Do you want to maintain muscle mass, strength, or endurance. Or are you trying to increase stength and/or endurance?

Weight, reps/sets, rest intervals, sequence, etc. are all based on these and other factors such as physical size, age, gender, any chonic ailments or physical issues, etc. Also if they are strength training for a particular activity or sport.

So what I am basically saying, there is no "sample" that would apply to every one or even make sense for anyone without additional info. What I would suggest you do is approach it this way for yourself. Find out what the maximum weight is that you can lift 1 time (using proper form) for the exercises you are doing now. Once you hit that weight, back it off to about 70-80% of that weight and try 2 sets of no more than 5-8 reps each. If you can do more than that, up the weight. If you can't do that much lower the weight. Rest time would be whatever the minimum is that you need before you can repeat for the second set. Sequence is somewhat a matter of personal preference and doesn't make much difference in terms of fitness. So do them in whatever sequence works for you.

Probably the most important aspects for fitness gains is that strength training needs to be consistant in terms of frequency and progressive in terms of periodically increasing the challenge to your muscles (whether that is by increasing weight, varying the exercises or a combination).

Motivation without information is useless.

Willpower is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Discipline is practicing something until it becomes a habit.

There is a big difference between surviving and thriving.

Tutling Our Way to Success http://teams.sparkpeople.com/turtling
30 Minute Fitness http://teams.sparkpeople.com/30minutefit




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DISCDOG's Photo DISCDOG Posts: 2,668
7/30/09 7:05 P

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Sorry to be a pain---

What would be a sample routine? What would the sequence of exercises, set and rep scheme, and rest times, look like for a beginner, and for a person of intermediate to advanced fitness and strength levels?

Thanks~!! I'm asking because I'm thinking of starting tomorrow.

Ask me about raw-feeding your pet!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/body-t
ransformation-fortified-at-45.html


NANCYJAC's Photo NANCYJAC Posts: 11,488
7/30/09 5:46 P

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Well actually any type of standing lift with free weights (assuming they are more than light handweights) is a compound move if you are using correct form. To lift the weight you need to bend your knees and contract your abs to both support the weight on the way up as well as to protect your joints and back. Even once the weight is lifted, you need to use your legs, butt, and abs to support the weight and maintain control and balance. Even body weight exercises on the floor without using weights can be compound exercises, such as sits ups (again if done with proper form) body curls, various leg up exercises, planks, push ups, etc. all engage abs along with multiple other muscle groups.

Some other specific examples include
Front squats
Inclined leg press
Deadlifts
Clean and press
Standing overhead lats
Military press

just to name a few

Motivation without information is useless.

Willpower is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Discipline is practicing something until it becomes a habit.

There is a big difference between surviving and thriving.

Tutling Our Way to Success http://teams.sparkpeople.com/turtling
30 Minute Fitness http://teams.sparkpeople.com/30minutefit




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RLHOTAN's Photo RLHOTAN Posts: 2,176
7/30/09 4:26 P

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ok. So, what are the few compound moves that would make up a complete total body workout?

Rochelle


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NANCYJAC's Photo NANCYJAC Posts: 11,488
7/30/09 4:06 P

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Not at all. In fact, reaching temporary muscle failure in fewer reps/sets is a good thing. Not working those muscle again for a week generally is a bad thing. And the bottom line is if you do compound exercises that recruit upper and lower body at the same time, you don't need to do separate reps for each of them.

Generally speaking, for strength gains, maintain or up weight, reduce reps, and recruit multiple muscles/muscles groups simultaneously.

For the example you used, due your sqats and/or lunges in combination with overhead lifts, controlling the movement so as to use your leg power to assist in both pushing and pulling the weights with your upper body. This is how our bodies are designed to operate in real life.

Working muscles in issolation, particularly only once a week, generally doesn't result in any fitness gains, just muscles that keep getting sore because you overuse them one day a week and then underuse them the rest of the time.

Motivation without information is useless.

Willpower is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Discipline is practicing something until it becomes a habit.

There is a big difference between surviving and thriving.

Tutling Our Way to Success http://teams.sparkpeople.com/turtling
30 Minute Fitness http://teams.sparkpeople.com/30minutefit




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DISCDOG's Photo DISCDOG Posts: 2,668
7/30/09 3:35 P

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Okay, let me ask this. Wouldn't a full-body routine take away from the actual amount of poundage I could move for certain exercises/bodyparts? What I mean is this: For example, I start my back workout with 3 sets of wide grip pull-ups. On my first set---when I'm strong and fresh---I can get out 10. But if I attempt them after a few sets of squats and lunges---which are very taxing if done heavy, I am sure I won't be able to get 10 reps out. Or if I start with the pullups, I won't be able to squat as heavy. Does that make any sense? I've been splitting body parts so I can attack each major bodypart strong and fresh, and therefore move more weight. I work it till it's quivering and begging for me to stop, then I leave it alone for a week.

It just seems that doing full-body will slow strength gains.

But like I said, I'm up for a new game plan. Bring it on!!!!

Ask me about raw-feeding your pet!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/body-t
ransformation-fortified-at-45.html


SERGEANTMAJOR's Photo SERGEANTMAJOR Posts: 6,652
7/30/09 2:39 P

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My advocacy of total body and compound (movement of more than one joint)exercises is based on my knowledge of how the body functions. Muscles are synergistic, the more muscles you recruit to a movement the stronger you are doing that movement. Doing preacher curls for example you may "isolate" your biceps muscles however by not recruiting the additional muscles you are limited as to the weight you can use, the same thing is true doing dumbbell curls. If you do the curls standing with a barbell you recruit everything from your feet to your head to stabilize yourself and maintain you control of the weight. Then again why bother to do curls when if you do bent rowing you get the same effect on the biceps but add the muscles of the upper back and shoulders which increase the weight you can use and engage your core to keep you stable.. Pullups engage the same muscles plus the traps. Bottom line is that if I can work everything with six basic exercises why would I want to do fifteen?

As a final grace note, the large muscles of the body burn more fuel doing work so the more of them involved in what you are doing the higher the caloric expenditure.


It is called WORK-ing out for a reason.

I said getting fit was simple, I did not say it was easy.

Cardio burns calories, strength work burns fat.

Eat well to lose weight, exercise to get fit

You can not build a six pack using twelve packs


Often when we seek a magic bullet for fitness we end up shooting ourselves in the foot.

"I think calories are little germs in food that all moms are afraid of" Dennis the Menace

NANCYJAC's Photo NANCYJAC Posts: 11,488
7/30/09 2:25 P

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Hi Rochelle. IMO, free weights are really a better choice for compound moves than cable weights, so sounds like you are already doing it with your twice weekly total body strength sessions.

Motivation without information is useless.

Willpower is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Discipline is practicing something until it becomes a habit.

There is a big difference between surviving and thriving.

Tutling Our Way to Success http://teams.sparkpeople.com/turtling
30 Minute Fitness http://teams.sparkpeople.com/30minutefit




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RLHOTAN's Photo RLHOTAN Posts: 2,176
7/30/09 2:07 P

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Hi My name is Rochelle. I LOVE this! This is perfect...Just what I have been looking for!! I am happy w/my weight/looks. I have the tools to maintain good eating habits. My cardio is all set. I love free weights but have problems working up the courage to use the machines at the gym. I also need help learning how to integrate and come up w/compound moves to replace my single muscle moves. Right now I do strength training twice a week-total body at once. It usually takes me approx 30 minutes. I'd love to hear about ways to improve my workout!!

Thanks for starting this SergentMajor

Rochelle


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NANCYJAC's Photo NANCYJAC Posts: 11,488
7/30/09 1:03 P

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Not sure what you need convincing of. Full body workouts are a no brainer for me. Why workout only selected parts of the body once a week, when you can workout your whole body in the same amount of time three times a week?

Edited by: NANCYJAC at: 7/30/2009 (13:08)
Motivation without information is useless.

Willpower is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Discipline is practicing something until it becomes a habit.

There is a big difference between surviving and thriving.

Tutling Our Way to Success http://teams.sparkpeople.com/turtling
30 Minute Fitness http://teams.sparkpeople.com/30minutefit




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DISCDOG's Photo DISCDOG Posts: 2,668
7/30/09 9:25 A

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Hi! I'm looking to shed more bodyfat, and mix things up in my current training program. This is what I'm curently doing:

Monday---Chest, shoulders, triceps
20-30 min. intervals

Tuesday--about 45 min. run outdoors with my dog

Wed.--legs
20-30 min. intervals

Thurs.---about 50-60 min run outdoors with my dog

Fri--back and biceps

20-30 min intervals

Sat---45 min run
Sun---10 mile run

I'm willing to try full body workouts again if you guys can convince me!!!!!

Ask me about raw-feeding your pet!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/body-t
ransformation-fortified-at-45.html


SERGEANTMAJOR's Photo SERGEANTMAJOR Posts: 6,652
7/29/09 1:19 P

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I created this team in response to the many requests I have gotten from the many women on Spark People who are seeking the latest information on how to get and stay fit. I will only serve as the Administrator for the team and as the resident personal trainer, this team will reflect the members and their opinions and interests not mine. I will be here to help with programmes and to share the most current information I can find on the topics opened and questions raised.


It is called WORK-ing out for a reason.

I said getting fit was simple, I did not say it was easy.

Cardio burns calories, strength work burns fat.

Eat well to lose weight, exercise to get fit

You can not build a six pack using twelve packs


Often when we seek a magic bullet for fitness we end up shooting ourselves in the foot.

"I think calories are little germs in food that all moms are afraid of" Dennis the Menace

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